how you know you overdo PK?

This topic contains 14 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Undkey Undkey 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

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  • #381965
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    ChristopheR
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    hi everyone. I would like to talk about how do you know that you are overdoing it on the pain killers… I decided to talk about this because I am trying to get over a spine fusion. well… because of it I have been in a lot of pain and I’ve been in such a huge pain since I have had a bad recovery after the surgery was done. I am currently using Fentanyl 48 hours, oxycontin 10 mg IR PRN, also using Soma 350 (DAN’s) for muscle relaxing as well as Dilaudid 4 mg PRN… and yeah, I have been also drinking grape fruit juice too.
    I can say with certitude that my head is spinning right now actually after I have had the soma. I am thinking that after I am going to write this I am going to hit the bed soon. that’s pretty funny, I mean, I am still in the pain but I am also buzzing really really hard too. one plus except for my tolerance is that I am having a O2 concentrator as well that I am normally having set to 2 LPM and that I am using whenever I hit the hay… it is obvious the thing that the head spinning like that is a sign that I have over done it, however the soma is working pretty well for me and also apparently the dilaudid must have caught up too.
    right now it is 12:45 AM and I am still up as you can see, however I am having a PT tomorrow and it is scheduled in the morning so I really have to crash and go sleeping.
    so that’s pretty much my story but I wanted to ask you guys, what it is a tell tale sign that you are getting already way too far? how do you know? I mean, I really need to stay out of the pain because otherwise I am not getting any sleep which I guess I shouldn’t explain why it is bad and I am also not healing IMO… can you help more with this? please?
    just any thoughts if that’s possible? please. I am not really wanting to pick up Narcan or anything in this matter. I am not very sure I can. I’ve been thinking that I could some months ago but back then (some months ago) I have got an extremely extremely bad response when I have tried it, I’ve taken it for emergencies should I screw up or the asthma is kicking in at night immediately.
    thank you, not ready to kick so far. now I do know that I should have done that at the hospital when they have screwed up on my pain management but it is too late now already. but sadly, right now I just need to close my eyes and to type this away (and I can do it because I know the keyboard of my PC very well). so anyway, please, if any of you can help with anything, I would really appreciate it very and very much! thank you in advance for everything!

  • #381967
    Profile photo of Histicely
    Histicely
    Participant

    oh wow, I really hope a lot that you are going well and that you will be doing well in future. well, my first inclination that I may be over doing it, it would be to wake up and to read that post that you have written up there, but I wrote it. if this would ever happen, then I would be initiating to back off a little bit.

    besides that, I must say that 2 times in my life now, I have actually had to fight in order to breathe and I have went into some kind of funky sleep paralysis mode (I’ve read about it, it does exist and I did have felt it on my skin) where I have been fully awake but I was not able to move and I was barely able to breathe too. that’s one hell of an experience. that’s just so damn scary. I have been aware the whole time and I do remember very well that I was fighting in order to breathe and because I was so scared, I guess, my heart was also racing like crazy too. I do know very well that I have over done it then. trying not to do it anymore.

  • #381968
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    Greene
    Participant

    oh wow, yes, I do know that there are such things as sleep paralysis and I did read about them, they are indeed scary, but I have never heard of someone getting them because of overdoing medications… have you got it because you have overdone it? yikes… that makes overdoing medications twice as scary and double reasons not to do it. I do know how scary it is because I have had it too, however it was not medication related. but yeah, that would be really scary, no doubts. just wishing you good luck and a soon as well as pain free recovery. hoping that soon you’re not gonna need anything to feel fine.

  • #381969
    Profile photo of HelenE
    HelenE
    Participant

    sorry you had to get through all of that, hopefully it would end soon. as for when I know that I am over doing it… well, I know it well that I use too much of pain killers when I am getting sweaty and clammy… yucks.. anyone else here who are getting these symptoms as well when overdoing PKs? I think that these are widely known symptoms of when you use too many pain killers.

  • #381970
    Profile photo of SerranoAm
    SerranoAm
    Participant

    hi there everyone… I’ve gotta say that I personally am thinking that using any pain killers it is overdoing it already… that said that in the perfect world where there was no pain at all, but unfortunately we are not living in such a world and doubt that we ever would. I do know very well that when you are in the pain the narcotics are making it all only a little bit better for you to get through it, I have taken a lot in order to get through my pain issues and illness… and after a lot of years of constantly visiting pain doctors and then those darn laws that are changing yearly that are doing it harder and harder to get anything other than some freaked up non narcotic pain killer that, at least for me, is having absolutely no effect of a pain relief but instead of benefitting and getting no pains it gives me some terrible side effects, fortunately, I am being able to be nearly all 100% off the pain medications a bit less than 11 months now. and also, I just need to get through a LOT of crap as well in order to get those darn 10 pills that I really wish I could kick it all together… but no, because I did have learned something very well… dealing with the chronic pain is something which made me learn that I need to do by limiting activity that it is increasing the pains… however, even so, I am still having some really bad days and it doesn’t really matter what I am doing and I am also having some pretty (in fact, VERY) bad headaches every single day when I am fighting and dealing with them and that goes like that until I just puke when I can’t take it no more, so that is the sign for me that I need to use some medications. we all know it very well that it is a very hard and tough call and that’s mostly due to the fact that everybody is having different medical issues… but over the last 18 years or maybe even longer now, I did have realized that every day of pain management did has helped me to relief pain and to be much more active too which really does help, however I have also learned very well that i am going to suffer from some severe consequences if I am going to be overdoing it. and now, since I said, the lesson is learned so I am only using for those really bad days, those days that are really bad but they are not enough bad to go to the ER. this is why there are, for me, 3 types of days: ones that are quite fine (I mean, I’m daily in pain, but these days are not as bad that I need to take medications), the other ones are those that are too much and that I need to take some medications in order to be able to deal with those pains and then there are the worst days when the pains are so big that I need to go to the ER.

    but anyway, now, I have to say that the ever biggest change that I have had to make has been the expectations of myself. this is something that I can guess each one of us must deal with. not overdoing with them, to me, it meant something that is completely different than what it actually means, or at least, what it means for me right now as far as the level of the activity as well as some other obligations I did due to my personality… and so, in order to make the long story a bit shorter… I have been thinking in the past that I am never going to say anything like this but for some reading your body saying no and to use some stuff like for example ice and heat it is just enough… but that’s something that you just can’t seem to realize very quickly… or at least that’s the thing for me because it has taken me like 18 years or more in order to get to this point so I’ve gotta say that getting off of pain medications every day has not been the hard task, or at least not the hardest… but yeah… there still appears those days when I really want to do and take some more, however I am holding myself back the best way I can and I do seem to have some success in doing this. for those who are wondering how and maybe you are wishing to do the same, just keep stable regimented life, that is going to help you a lot. and an active lifestyle surely helps too! you’ve just got to keep your heads up and I am really hoping a lot that I have made at least a little bit here, I mean, I hope that I helped at least a bit. I’m sorry if this is a too big post but I think that it is quite hard to explain a point of view without giving away your life story and how it all started and ended up until the moment when you got to have such a point of view. again, hope this is gonna be helpful for some out there.

  • #381971
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    squetheee
    Participant

    hey there OP. trust me I am very sorry that you need to get through so much pain that you must take so many pain killers and other medications so you could feel fine and even then you are not. but still, I must say that I would be very careful with your Soma intake… try to discuss this with your doctor as I am no doctor and I can’t really say much or recommend anything… but I just want you to be safe and that’s why I said you need to be very careful. I have been a chronic pain patient for years now, however adding Soma or benzodiazepines to an acute pain situation I personally would be very leery. all those medications that you are using.. are they are being prescribed to you by the same doctor? if no… I guess you already know what I am going to say: go and tell those doctors about this and give them all a full list of medications that you use (prescribed and OTC as well). that’s extremely important. but if that’s one doctor who gives you all of them then ask him about drugs interactions, contraindications etc. that’s, at least, what I would do.

  • #381972
    Profile photo of SerranoAm
    SerranoAm
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    [quote] but still, I must say that I would be very careful with your Soma intake… try to discuss this with your doctor as I am no doctor and I can’t really say much or recommend anything… but I just want you to be safe and that’s why I said you need to be very careful. I have been a chronic pain patient for years now, however adding Soma or benzodiazepines to an acute pain situation I personally would be very leery. all those medications that you are using.. [/quote]
    I wanted to say something in regards to this… aren’t they calling the some and vidoden a vegas cocktail?? from as much as I have heard, it is being supposed to be having a pretty similar effect to the heroin, not sure how true this is. whatever the case… yes, I would also recommend OP to be very careful on this medication cocktail and yes I do agree with you, you are definitely right. I say all of this because I know of somebody who had overdosed on those medications and… well… they died… that’s really sad. the most interesting thing is that those people did have had legitimate pain and they got legitimately those medications by prescriptions, however they have underestimated how dangerous such a cocktail can be so they ignored the warnings and took the combination of drugs… worst result.. so yes, please be very aware. I know that this has happened many years ago when drugs interactions wasn’t really taken in consideration but from as much as I have heard, they took soma from a doctor and the pain killer from another doctor. back then they didn’t know if the patient was already prescribed something or not. whatever the case, that’s a really sad story with a very sad outcome.

  • #381973
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    Robert
    Participant

    ell… I’ve just read the above post and to be honest… I am not even sure why I am even trying to offer this historical correction but anyway… I have read this part:
    *I wanted to say something in regards to this… aren’t they calling the some and vidoden a vegas cocktail?? from as much as I have heard, it is being supposed to be having a pretty similar effect to the heroin, not sure how true this is. whatever the case… yes, I would also recommend OP to be very careful on this medication cocktail and yes I do agree with you, you are definitely right. I say all of this because I know of somebody who had overdosed on those medications and… well… they died… that’s really sad. *

    so I wanted to correct… for whatever it might be worth it… actually, a “vegas cocktail” it is actually a 3 drug mix which consists of Soma, Hydrocodone as well as Valium. you can read about it more online but I still can say that this is a very nasty combination with very often overdose results, which is why I would always recommend not to try to combine these 3 drugs. the ‘vegas cocktail’ sounds to be cool. but it is nastier than you think. and also… just throw in some alcohol in order to wash it down and I tell you that not even narcan is not likely to avoid a potential dirt nap. just please, stay away from this, do not try to play around with this otherwise you will regret, trust me.

  • #381974
    Profile photo of SerranoAm
    SerranoAm
    Participant

    Robert, thank you for posting but the correction: [quote] so I wanted to correct… for whatever it might be worth it… actually, a “”vegas cocktail”” it is actually a 3 drug mix which consists of Soma, Hydrocodone as well as Valium. you can read about it more online but I still can say that this is a very nasty combination with very often overdose results, which is why I would always recommend not to try to combine these 3 drugs. [/quote] might be not correct. what I’m trying to say is that I have found what does the ‘las vegas cocktail’ means online and if you go on urbandictionary. com and you type in las vega cocktail you are going to see that there are only 2 drugs mentioned: soma and vicodin. no hydrocodone and no valium included and generally nothing in regards to it. not even mentioned them. but anyway, I am not very sure… maybe this is wrong… however this is what I have been told in the past and this is what I have found online now when I looked it up.

    and also… I was just saying and sharing this type of information after somebody that I knew has overdosed on just those 2 drugs that I have mentioned earlier and on the dictionary either.

  • #381975
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    tuntko
    Participant

    well… I personally I know (at least usually) that I have used just enough and I shouldn’t be using anymore when I am starting to feel warm a little of euphoria and also a slight nod. however, for me, too much it is when I am falling asleep and then I am not able to remember what I have done. I guess this is why I can’t say for sure what makes me feel like I’ve taken too much: I just can’t remember anything when I take too much. but yeah, the other thing is that I type something that it is really hard to understand too, LOL.

  • #381976
    Profile photo of PromboJack
    PromboJack
    Participant

    oh my god.. yes indeed, combinations of drugs can be fatal, I do know this very well and I am trying to be maximum careful on them. yikes… I recommend everyone to be very careful too… that it is indeed a potentially very dangerous combo so please stay away. as I said, I am always trying to be careful and I am always trying to stay away whenever I am using some opiates in any high doses or an opiate along with an depressant. I try to be so careful because I do know very well that people are usually dying in their sleep on such kind of medications… it is all very dangerous. I know it very well because I have lost a childhood friend in this way… only if we knew earlier… there was nobody to warn us. but you do have someone… you have this site with members (including me) who warns you. and yeah… of course I am having absolutely no idea what your tolerance level is, however this is only a general warning that IMO you MUST know.

    and also… OP, if I would be you then I would avoid the grape fruit juice, to me that doesn’t sound like a very good idea and the reason is that it can produce some unpredictable effects/ outcomes… and that’s ESPECIALLY when you are having multiple drugs in the mix. since you have mentioned the grape fruit juice I guess you know something about it which means that you must know that it can be really dangerous. try to stay away and try to be very careful.

    and yea… you’ve asked for the signs that shows that you have over done it… well, usually they would be sedation, nausea and/ or vomiting, severely depressed breathing, dizziness too… in short, basically they are opiate symptoms but magnified. I guess you already know it very well that overdoing it can end very bad, but I still need to warn you once more and tell: please, try not to do it.

  • #381981
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    Robert
    Participant

    what I’m trying to say is that I have found what does the ‘las vegas cocktail’ means online and if you go on urbandictionary. com and you type in las vega cocktail you are going to see that there are only 2 drugs mentioned: soma and vicodin. no hydrocodone and no valium included and generally nothing in regards to it. not even mentioned them. < look it up and I found it. indeed you are correct. not sure why. I just thought that maybe it is an old school and a new school version. maybe both of them are correct too, I am not very sure now, but that’s what I used to know that it is a vegas cocktail. either way, it is a really dumb idea to do either one, that’s for sure.

  • #381982
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    RoberTs
    Participant

    although I am not an expert… I just want to share my opinion here and that is why I must say… in my opinion, absolutely any amount that it is making you pass out and to go numb it is already too much. I have some really big doubts that there’s just one dose that is considered to be too much for all people and that’s because people are different and they are acting differently on different drugs and different doses. this means that like for example 10 mg for a person might already be too much while for another this dosage might barely touch him/ her. having that said, a too much dose is different for every person but as I said, the signs of too much is that amount for you that makes you pass out and go numb. anyway… I am also having a back surgery scheduled and back surgeries usually involves pains… my surgery is scheduled for this summer (2017). of course I also take pain killing medications and for me, the right amount of those medications is the point when it is enough for me to take the pain down and that’s it. I mean, not a less dosage because it won’t be able to cure my pain but not a higher dosage because it numbs me. a dosage that is taking my dosage down to a point where I am still able to function without being constantly distracted by the pains but in the same time I’m not numbed.
    but yeah, I am, of course, not very sure what your doctor told you about the post surgery, but my doctor was honest with me and he has told me that after the surgery I am not going to be pain free and I won’t be having 0 pains. I really doubt that you’re gonna be pain free… and I have to say that it would be completely normal not to have some pains. it is actually helping to keep us from over doing it, IMO.

    I’ve gotta say that I have gotten to where I am using an fee anti inflammatories and just some very light narcotics a couple of times per day in order to function normally. I can tell you that I am feeling so much more better by living without my head being in a constant fog and not having a clear mind… and in the same time not living in agony because of the pains either. that’s such a good feeling… however I can say that it is quite hard to taper down when you are having pains so better do it when you are not in pains at all… the reason is that it feels like you are in some more pain than you are due to the fact that you are being used to the narcotics so when you are pain free and then you taper and you get withdrawals from medications and plus the pains is hitting back, you start thinking that you are worse than you were. having this said, I am sure that the less amount that you need to take then the better for you… the less you take the happier you would be, although sometimes I do know that it feels otherwise. but in the end of the day, we still do know very well that one back surgery is going to lead to another back surgery and so on and so forth which means that most likely, we are never going to go back to normal, and only those few of us who did got back to normal – they are one of the most luckiest people on this planet. whilst I really hope that I am among those luckiest people, I do also realize that chances this to be true are very little, and this is why I do perfectly realize that I am most likely going to need pain medications my entire life until the end of my days… this is the reason why I really do not want to max myself out until later, until there’s a real need to do so. so I try to take as little as possible and sometimes I’m even staying in pains without taking anything in those days when I don’t need to be functional…

  • #381983
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    HenryDBerman
    Participant

    well… from as much as I know, it is hard to tell when you have overdone it in the time that you did. that’s unless you are taking SUCH a high dose that you are not even able to do anything. so you are surely going to find out that you have overdone it when you are going to stop taking it. that’s the time when you will know for sure that you’ve overdone it. that’s because it is not pleasant at all, stopping to take pain killers after you have been overdoing it is so damn unpleasant. and that’s especially the Fentanyl. I really don’t want to scare you… I just want to warn you… that on its own it is dangerous and it is potentially… lethal… but even mixed with other drugs… I guess there’s no need to explain how much of a risk you get through with this drug… you just should not get high my friend on this stuff… please do not. you need to pay to play and when you are playing with such stuff, you will always lose, there is no way you are going to be a winner. again, not trying to scare you but you need to be warned!

  • #381984
    Profile photo of Undkey
    Undkey
    Participant

    so, just look, the next time when you are going to go and see your doctor (whenever it is scheduled) then you’ve got to go over his weaning plan. I can tell you with 100% certitude that they do not like at all to keep you on post operation level medications for way too long. they would get you off as soon as possible. if he can tell you something like: ‘I am typically getting rid of the fentanyl patch at the X weeks, then we are trying to decrease the dilaudid dosage by the week X…’ then you are knowing (at least kind of) where you are heading. you know what you can expect and you know what you’ve gotta do. that’s already a lot. and being prepared for something means a lot than when it suddenly happens. psychological factor is amazingly important. whatever the case I must say that if you are on so many drugs that they are making you feel funny and in the same time they also make you feel unwell then I honestly think that you must discuss with somebody about all of this. remember that you are going to be in pain and it does not matter what… that’s sad and I am sorry that I had to tell you this, but wouldn’t you rather be in a manageable amount of pain and still lucid and to be able to have a clear mind, to be able to think normally and straight? that’s, to me, a good plan, and it’s my aim. as I said, I do realize that I’m gonna be in pain no matter what, the only way that you MIGHT get rid of the pain is to OVERDO it. that’s not a good idea. I would rather be in a manageable amount of pain and in the same time to be able to do stuff. you’ve got to remember one very important thing that unfortunately, many people and patients are doing a severely bad mistake by thinking that the goal of the pain management it is to get the patient to get absolutely no pains. that’s not true and that’s going to be a mistake by thinking like that. having that said, actually, the pain management goal it is to get the patients to a pain level where they are still able to spend their time with their family, with their loved ones… also to do their tasks and go to their jobs, to pursue their interests and so on and so forth. generally to make them be able do whatever they need and want to do, but nobody ever said that in this time they would be absolutely pain free… people with health issues still work and having pains is a health issue. pain management just tries to get those ‘health issues AKA pains’ to a manageable level where the patient is able to do whatever he wants/ needs to do.

    in the end… you’ve just got to talk with your prescribed… they must be able to help, or at least, they must be able to explain it all better and help. good luck!

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